_

A lot of the so called Bitcoin Maxis here sound a lot like altcoiners. I reckon they lost their money on altcoins and now treat Bitcoin like an altcoin.

2023-02-20 10:47:04 UTC

Deleting Damus, adios…

2023-02-20 10:37:22 UTC

I think I will ‘delete’ my Nostr account in the next few days.
No longer a net positive experience. The Nostr protocol is great, may revisit it in the future.

2023-02-20 09:48:06 UTC

The more I think about it, Bitcoin SV is the only chain that could scale to 1 billion users with non-custodial wallets.

2023-02-20 09:05:45 UTC

Forking Damus…

2023-02-20 09:04:48 UTC

Glad I’m finding the outcasts here, and following them. Welcome.
No need to drink the Bitcoin koolaid.

2023-02-20 08:27:43 UTC

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Very

2023-02-20 05:34:48 UTC

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I think these are altcoiners who turned to Bitcoin in the downmarket.

2023-02-20 05:11:50 UTC

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Just wanted to standardise. For example if I wanted to add a Bitcoin address I might choose “BTC” and someone else might choose “Bitcoin” and never the twain shall meet.

2023-02-20 05:10:02 UTC

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Cool block number

2023-02-20 05:07:56 UTC

Is there a NIP for the lightning address field in your profile?
Mainly interested in adding additional fields for other payment options.
#[0]

2023-02-20 04:23:28 UTC

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I’ll take the 80.

2023-02-20 03:57:23 UTC

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I was just thinking the same thing. Would need both client and relay support.

2023-02-20 03:39:04 UTC

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Lol #[0]

2023-02-20 02:51:08 UTC

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On Nostrgram if you tap on the number under the zap it shows you.

2023-02-20 02:10:57 UTC

Ouch, got zapped ⚡️

2023-02-20 02:00:24 UTC

Everything is pretty flat or going down in Nostraland except for zaps
(ignore the current day as that is partial)
https://nostr.band/stats.html#daily_zaps
https://media.nostrgram.co/i/96/media_965f0d24d2f36.jpg

2023-02-20 01:54:10 UTC

Always fun having a look through the Nostr stats:
https://nostr.band/stats.html

2023-02-20 01:32:25 UTC

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Good afternoon from the east coast! (Well almost)

2023-02-20 01:27:27 UTC

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And maybe it could kick in if you click on a single post or thread.

2023-02-20 01:25:17 UTC

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Damus seems to have support for this but is disabled. Note sure what performance impact it would have.
https://github.com/damus-io/damus/blob/master/damus/Nostr/NostrEvent.swift#L100

2023-02-20 00:28:31 UTC

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I have literally no experience with running a relay but I have heard nostream is good and is used by a number of the relays @cameri
https://github.com/Cameri/nostream

2023-02-20 00:24:35 UTC

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2023-02-20 00:20:33 UTC

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And plenty of open source software to fork.

2023-02-20 00:19:44 UTC

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I agree, very bullish on Nostr tech.
Maybe some paid topical relays might help.

2023-02-20 00:03:53 UTC

I’m going to call it: I think Nostr has peaked
I’m pretty much a Bitcoin maxi but even this level of Bitcoin craziness is too much for me.
I think 99.9999% of people are going to take one look at this and run in the other direction.
Nostr really needs a reboot. Perhaps a client with no crypto at all so no crazies are attracted or maybe a client with multiple crypto support to at least bring some balance to the force.
At the moment it feels like you’ve fallen into a Bitcoin religious, pagan, occult, Baal worshipping ceremony. It will need a miracle to get over this.

2023-02-19 22:33:55 UTC

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I’m curious what you mean by Jewish? Do you mean genetically Jewish? I looked into this recently and I don’t think there is such a thing.
(Btw great to see this discussion here on Nostr between a Jew and an anti-Jew, maybe more discussion will lead to better outcomes)

2023-02-19 21:55:35 UTC

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You’ve got to give Elon full credit for starting this.

2023-02-19 21:23:23 UTC

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You can try filter.nostr.wine but you’ll also need to turn off the other public relays and only have paid relays.

2023-02-19 11:19:00 UTC

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#[0]

2023-02-19 10:05:26 UTC

Only human

2023-02-19 09:31:16 UTC

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(I wrote some code about 3 years ago but I’m rusty)
Yes no doubt there are benefits to even custodial lightning.
I just don’t like the fact people are forced to use it as their only option (if BTC blocks fill up).

2023-02-19 09:27:39 UTC

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Also the ins and outs are a large component of the tx size and there is a tx size limit.

2023-02-19 09:25:57 UTC

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Good point. But if people move bitcoin into a wallet they later might want to move it (surely it won’t be there forever). That will be a single tx per user.

2023-02-19 09:04:28 UTC

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Okay so you are saying money is stored on Bitcoin. But Bitcoin can’t handle 1 billion transactions in the next 5 years. Or you are saying people use fiat for larger amounts instead of Bitcoin?

2023-02-19 08:53:41 UTC

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My concern is people won’t have a choice except to use custodial because the block capacity isn’t there.
To be fair a lot of Bitcoin is held in custody too, but people aren’t forced to use custody.
Let’s say the network handles the first 500m but not the next. Then custodial lightning providers will become centralised and we are back to the old banking system. Custody should be an option not the only option.

2023-02-19 08:43:38 UTC

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Would that require a new channel?

2023-02-19 08:39:47 UTC

So in summary, to my earlier question about Lightning scalability:
Using back of the napkin calculations, you probably couldn’t onboard 1 billion users to Lightning within a 5 year period because each new user requires an on chain transaction to open a new channel and it would take Bitcoin 5 years to process those transactions.
But there are possible future solutions that could reduce the number/size of onchain transactions to onboard users, or a different blockchain-based layer 2 could be used with bigger blocks which Lightning rides on top of as layer 3 which would allow a greater capacity for new user onboarding.

2023-02-19 08:09:27 UTC

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That’s really interesting thanks. I’m about halfway through it.

2023-02-19 07:21:10 UTC

I have to say things on Nostr have gone down hill since the Bitcoin/Lightning nitwits arrived. I guess that’s the way of things.

2023-02-19 07:18:51 UTC

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And you’d be wrong. Thanks also for not answering.

2023-02-19 07:16:30 UTC

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I just realised you haven’t answered any of my questions.

2023-02-19 07:14:11 UTC

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I’ve been in Bitcoin for years, completely new Lightning. You aren’t giving me any confidence whatsoever I would want to store my funds there.

2023-02-19 07:12:41 UTC

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Here’s another question for you, you are happy keeping $100k+ on the lightning network which doesn’t have a proof of work immutable ledger?

2023-02-19 07:07:29 UTC

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Should be a simple answer. Clearly isn’t.

2023-02-19 07:04:20 UTC

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Okay I’ll be generous. Let’s say Bitcoin can do 500k tx per day. It would take 5 years for each of 1 billion people to make their first transaction.
Are you saying I am wrong?

2023-02-19 06:59:25 UTC

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My point is that if 1 billion people adopt Bitcoin the network won’t handle it. It’s not about whether I want to use it, it’s whether there is capacity for a typical social media audience which is typically in the hundreds of millions if not billions.

2023-02-19 06:56:14 UTC

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And you do realise that all that BTC will be held by large lightning providers? Concentrated into a few, which are essentially banks, sitting on almost all of the Bitcoin.

2023-02-19 06:52:25 UTC

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We should empty our Bitcoin wallets now because there is no way you’ll be able to access them in the future?

2023-02-19 06:50:43 UTC

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So the future of Bitcoin is lightning, and only lightning, because there is no way a billion people can access their Bitcoin wallet?
Didn’t realise this when I bought Bitcoin in 2013.

2023-02-19 06:47:38 UTC

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Sorry I hurt your feelings.

2023-02-19 06:46:27 UTC

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I think with the whole concept of relays comes less of a focus on censorship. Because the focus is on relaying notes and other stuff between users rather than storing. Notes can be more ephemeral. Personally I think the idea of relays is genius.
The emphasis isn’t on hosting but relaying.

2023-02-19 06:40:17 UTC

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Would you advise to keep large amounts in a non-custodial lightning wallet? Like say $100k?

2023-02-19 06:36:13 UTC

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Lightning isn’t any more censorship resistant than any other crypto.
Twitter’s backend was never open source, there is no concept of interacting with other servers. Nostr fixes this.

2023-02-19 06:32:14 UTC

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Or maybe a relay with an IQ test.

2023-02-19 06:29:33 UTC

I think I need a relay where people talk about Nostr and not Bitcoin.

2023-02-19 06:18:13 UTC

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You literally just repeated what I said. Well done.

2023-02-19 06:14:45 UTC

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I disagree, Nostr was designed to be censorship resistant, Twitter wasn’t. The appeal (to me) is the censorship resistance and also the openness.
With Twitter you can’t build your own client or add server features. The openness of Nostr allows you do that.
Lightning is irrelevant. Could be any crypto. Many other social networks have already integrated crypto, no big deal.

2023-02-18 22:40:40 UTC

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I like your optimism!

2023-02-18 22:37:05 UTC

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Even from a simple Moore’s law perspective, shouldn’t the block size be able to double every 18 months? If not, why?
Originally you needed a multi thousand dollar computer to run Bitcoin now you can run it on a $20 computer.

2023-02-18 22:30:51 UTC

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What is the cost of not having it?

2023-02-18 22:30:07 UTC

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Mostly more storage. Now you could say that will mean less raspberry pis. But what is the point of rpis when all Bitcoin is owned by a few and hardly anyone has their own keys?
So there must be a balance and 200k tx/day doesn’t seem to be enough.

2023-02-18 22:26:09 UTC

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To be clear the issue here is Bitcoin rather than Lightning. It needs to support more transactions per block.

2023-02-18 22:25:07 UTC

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But why not allow it to support the world’s population? It is a finite number. It’s not like the world’s population is growing. At least support weekly transfers or even monthly. Lightning is going to concentrate all Bitcoin into the hands of a few. Now you have the old banking system.

2023-02-18 22:13:21 UTC

I’m doing a good job of weeding out the Bitcoin 0.00001%

2023-02-18 22:07:36 UTC

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It seems that way. But may be I’m missing something. I’m not sure how Bitcoin maximalists can parrot not your keys not your coins and support lightning.
Won’t that mean that the big lightning nodes will also own all that Bitcoin? So basically the public will hold no Bitcoin and it will be transferred into the large lightning operators. Someone is going to like that.
I got into Bitcoin so everyone could be their own bank.

2023-02-18 21:55:03 UTC

Which is worse, a lightning maximalist or a Bitcoin maximalist?

2023-02-18 21:23:16 UTC

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In my view the novelty of Nostr is the concept of relays. All they do is forward content there is no guarantee to store it. I’m not aware of any similar architecture previously? Mostly because people assumed that you would also need to archive the content.
In terms of censorship, with Twitter it is difficult to create an alternate. So you have platforms like Gab and Getter which reinvent the wheel from scratch.
There is a market for censorship resistance. With Nostr if people get wind that a relay is censoring, they can use the same client and open source relay software to gather around their own relays. It already happened with Gab, etc. and will be far easier with Nostr.
Yes relays can always censor, but we might be able to have detection mechanisms. For example if a group ran private relays, they could compare the private relay feed with the public one. If there is a difference they can raise the alarm and gather around a new relay.
I think this is far better than the existing social networks.

2023-02-18 21:06:50 UTC

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I’ve been buying Bitcoin since 2013. But was never interested in lightning until Nostr.

2023-02-18 20:59:31 UTC

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True, and I don’t mind that approach as it is quick to convert fiat to sats.

2023-02-18 20:56:59 UTC

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So how does that work. Do you have a Bitcoin wallet that you are transferring from. Or are you converting from fiat?

2023-02-18 20:55:45 UTC

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I’ve never thought that deeply about lightning. I’m sure the smart people here have and there is a simple explanation.

2023-02-18 20:51:50 UTC

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Even if 1 billion people only topped up once per week that would be 140m on chain transactions per day.
If they topped up once per year that would be 3m on chain transactions per day. They would only be able to top up once every 10 years, which is basically never.
Am I missing something?
#[0]

2023-02-18 20:46:02 UTC

Lightning question: not your keys not your coins, so you shouldn’t store too much in a lightning wallet. If lightning takes off you might have to top up your lightning wallet daily from a Bitcoin wallet. Aren’t those transactions on chain? What happens if 1 billion people want to top up their lightning wallet daily? Bitcoin only supports about 200k tx/day.

2023-02-18 20:39:24 UTC

2 weeks on Nostr and I’m already thinking lightning is Bitcoin, oops.

2023-02-18 20:36:21 UTC

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Good point!

2023-02-18 20:25:34 UTC

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You don’t understand how Nostr works. It’s just a client. Like any other client.

2023-02-18 20:20:48 UTC

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There’s testnet

2023-02-18 20:19:14 UTC

End game question: which Nostr iOS client will be more popular, the one that only supports Bitcoin, or the one that also supports other blockchains?

2023-02-18 20:04:52 UTC

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Nonsense

2023-02-18 20:04:25 UTC

In practice I’m pretty much a Bitcoin maximalist. I don’t research other coins and my portfolio is like 99% Bitcoin with a few other bits and bobs I picked up along the way.
But I’m not ideologically a Bitcoin maximalist. I don’t get closed mindsets.

2023-02-18 20:01:59 UTC

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I’m not poor

2023-02-18 19:57:48 UTC

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Cool. Never heard of it 😄

2023-02-18 19:54:53 UTC

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I’m almost inclined to do it just to prove a point. Although I’d probably integrate zaps first.

2023-02-18 19:49:10 UTC

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There’s plenty of room. Wide open spaces.