EthanTuttle
Ethan Tuttle

https://github.com/fedimint/fedimint/pull/3583
Want to use FROST to do nostr things? Try it out with the nostrmint module. Technical skills needed to get up and running.

2023-11-01 13:13:36

https://image.nostr.build/973529a87f37ade065d0a05559bd63f7a3a3d97f814c54ff44142d9dd9122e97.jpg

2023-11-01 01:51:41

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This is decentralization but rather redundancy. And yes, this is the fedimint model. There are multiple servers running fedimint and coordinating with each other to keep the mint "alive".

2023-10-28 02:17:11

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https://void.cat/d/Jd164tbMJwrp9s1skpKsbS.webp

2023-10-25 17:47:35

@npub15hvkk66pfgffwklusrexwgwgq5c8prlwqputh9gwcsv27jfmdxzsa6gjgu
FEDIMINT'S CAN HELP WITH INITIAL MICROPAYMENTS BEFORE THE SATS AMOUNT REACHES ECONOMIC REASONABILITY FOR LN FEES.
https://github.com/MutinyWallet/mutiny-node/tree/fedimint
MUTINY EXPERIMENTED WITH THIS IDEA. TBD IF IT WORKS OUT THAT WAY.

2023-10-22 22:05:37

Any good diagram on how FROST would work? Like a flow chart one?

2023-10-20 22:40:16

https://gist.github.com/LaurentMT/e758767ca4038ac40aaf
anyone savvy on this stuff and have more resrouces?

2023-10-17 17:08:41

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Fedimint is a federation ecash system (and can be much more since it's modular). Cashu is a non-federated ecash system. Both take in bitcoin and issue ecash notes. These ecash notes are 1:1 IOUs for bitcoin but use blinded signatures by the mint to preserve privacy. They also use LN for interoperability between other bitcoin projects/wallets/etc.
happy to go further if this wasn't detailed enough.
also check out https://fedimint.org

2023-10-17 12:19:41

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It shoudl "just work". Fedimint uses LN nodes are liquidity between each federation and the general LN network. Or you could redeem for on-chain from Bob's mint. This is one part of the UX that is being explored and actively discussed/developed. There's really only one mature client app for fedimint and that's Fedi. I don't have insight into how they do things exactly.

2023-10-16 12:44:32

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bank run. proof of liabilities is an unsolved problem. I do wonder about BitVM being applied to this problem in the future.
more to read here on Proof of Liabilities by @nprofile…4n7r
https://gist.github.com/callebtc/ed5228d1d8cbaade0104db5d1cf63939

2023-10-16 12:43:09

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Fedimint uses something called a LN gateway. This is a LN node operator that runs a specific plugin/daemon alongside their node and can offer their liquidity to the fedimint. They're essentially a specialized client of the federation that deals in ecash<->LN contracts. If a LN invoice is given for internal to the mint, it just settles out ecash and the LN isn't touched.
I can get a bit more technical if you're LN tech savvy. or join the Discord and pop into #lightning to chat (chat.fedimint.org)

2023-10-16 02:03:36

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No worries! imho, the naming was an interesting choice. But there's something to branding for easy mental mapping that can be respected.

2023-10-16 02:01:22

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Yup! I've had the pleasure to meet Obi. Awesome dude. I've gave that one a listen.

2023-10-16 02:00:32

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I messaged you... somewhere...

2023-10-16 01:55:54

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Check out https://www.fedi.xyz/builders
They're a company running fedimint things and help on the protocol. Otherwise, it's really just technical people experimenting and iterating on this new and emerging protocol/tech.

2023-10-16 01:54:38

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> My most pressing question is what is being done to help educate new users about what these technologies do and how to use them safely?
This note. 😅 But seriously, it's one of my longer term goals is educating people on the topic and generally being a "developer advocate" aka professional tech shill. There's not a lot of content out there focused on it... yet. There's https://fedimint.org and https://cashu.space/ available for consumption and several podcasts on the topic. But as with anything bitcoin, there should be more podcasts.
> That’s a lot!
Definitely, that's why both ecash implementations have opted to do invoicing like lightning for payments and such. You can still dump `cashu...` notes everywhere but otherwise it can be just lightning style payments/interactions. @nprofile…2edj is doing big things on this front and with nostr.

2023-10-16 01:49:36

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2. I have no idea. For Fedimint, someone else can run the lightning node for you and the fee is configurable. For Cashu, I've never run a mint.

2023-10-16 01:48:52

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1. because you want ecash? it's offline capabale. the data is the asset. You can receive it on a piece of paper. you don't want to manage liquidity. you don't want the latency of VPN/TOR. you have a service where you already custody users funds and want to provide a different privacy trade off.

2023-10-16 01:44:55

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the mint is holding keys for the bitcoin backing everything. there can be no guarantee. But there can be trade offs. Only running "the right" code is helpful, but really it comes down to trust and risk appetite. I deposit very small amounts in some Cashu mints just to experiment, because I don't trust it enough with larger amounts.

2023-10-16 01:42:54

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offline payments.

2023-10-16 01:42:39

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no. some might disagree depending on your terminology. It's privacy preserving 1:1 bitcoin IOUs in a federation model. imho, that's not the coolest part though, it's the module system that enable you to have small consensus of servers on arbitrary data.

2023-10-16 01:41:26

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Trust nothing. The trust is based on the relationship between users and the fedimint guardians aka node runners. See here for a more technical answer about proof of liabilities: https://gist.github.com/callebtc/ed5228d1d8cbaade0104db5d1cf63939

2023-10-16 01:38:23

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Setup is a bit of work. Running is like any other server. Complexity to run is simple but early. Early stages for most users on the Fedimint side.

2023-10-16 00:25:05

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#Cashu is one #ecash implementation. #Fedimint (what i work on part time), is a different implementation. Cashu is much more mature in its UI/UX so you're more likely to have encountered it. Especially here on nostr.

2023-10-16 00:21:56

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I don't work at Fedi but that's probably the app. Fedimint the open source project just hit versioned release at v0.1.2. Very new but has been in development for a long time. Fedimint is modular as well so not just bitcoin ecash. Working on making the Fedimint have an npub myself (very slowly).

2023-10-16 00:05:54

hi nostr.
I'm working on fedimint (thnx @nprofile…shpv ) and have general interest in ecash.
if you don't know what that means, what's your most pressing question? if you do, when was the last time you've checked in on the space? It's quite interesting.

2023-10-16 00:04:25

https://github.com/fedimint/ui/issues/101
"Gateway admin UI packaged as an LnBits extension"
@nprofile…qadu since you probably have a lot more free time now that you've defended your thesis. Any time to ponder on who might be a good help for this?

2023-10-14 11:05:07

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It was some svg with wavy thicc lines.

2023-10-14 02:49:48

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Why not just further divide the existing coins? More numerically but you're not diluting the % of the whole that people own.

2023-10-12 13:11:50

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only somewhat. I do think ecash should have a specific symbol/emoji.
@nprofile…c8fu suggested 🔩 because NUTS + BOLTS = ecash
Where did you derive you icon from?

2023-10-11 20:43:04

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How’s my PR looking?

2023-10-10 16:11:26

@nprofile…7pym Is nostr a good place to reach out?

2023-10-10 15:36:01

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let's make fetch happen.

2023-10-10 14:56:02

https://git.v0l.io/Kieran/snort/pulls/648#issuecomment-3620
🔩
@nprofile…2edj ?

2023-10-10 14:28:14

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https://git.v0l.io/Kieran/snort/pulls/648#issuecomment-3620

2023-10-10 10:19:33

Ecash is just data. It can be shoved into almost application without major refactoring. I look forward to games build around ecash mints.

2023-10-10 10:18:26

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Fedimint modules could enable swaps points. 🫣

2023-10-09 01:01:44

https://nostrnests.com/nyv3uf
Is this thing on?

2023-10-09 00:38:45

So fedimint nodes have a liveliness for connectivity. They connect over websocket to each other. This is how messages are passed and consensus communications happen. I wonder if there's a timeliness to consensus items, or if it could be done very slowly. If it could go slowly, then I ponder if you could just use nostr as a communicaiton layer. 🤔

2023-10-09 00:31:36

Is there a group chat for @npub1ndkltu98tr2eupgv5y367cck7kgj96d56vzmz40mxa25v68evv0qv6ffdn users?
I need to implement AsRef<[u8]> for Event and am curious if I should just Serialize it first or if there's a better way. fwiw, I'm doing nostr + fedimint things

2023-10-08 01:47:47

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CC: @nprofile…j8hs

2023-10-08 01:46:41

https://github.com/EthnTuttle/awesome-ecash
@nprofile…p2kw @nprofile…2edj @nprofile…qadu
and @nprofile…70d7 since you like lists of things.
Ecash.Review
Do you have the domain yet?

2023-10-07 12:27:09

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Nothing is secure from agencies. They own your device if they want. The telecoms own all mobile devices. Once you have the keys from the device, decrypting e2e comms is trivial.

2023-10-07 12:26:00

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Fair point on the technically competent piece but I point back to wifi. That seemed unobtainable to many for a number of years and is now ubiquitous. You now longer have to get some external card to slide into a slot on your laptop to get wifi. It just works ™️
You point presupposes that humans won’t learn and adapt to using new technology over time. I disagree. The motivation to learn the tech or to abstract the tech to simpler UX exists and grows with time.
Look at bitcoin itself. You used to have to run CLI commands to interact with the network. Now…

2023-10-07 12:22:20

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This is not a BTC specific issue. Using a 100 dollar bill for payments is the same thing.

2023-10-06 02:13:43

@nprofile…vjma
Used my NIP05 for diffussion.to
Very sad there was no way to verify ethantuttle@nobluecheckfor.me for the site.

2023-10-04 14:20:15

https://bolt.fun/story/nutstash-newsletter-6-deterministic-secrets-and-recovery-from-seed--1080

2023-10-04 13:30:57

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1. And now most of the world trusts banks with their "money" (currency really). I don't think this paradigm will go away and making people comfortable with the personal responsibility of holding all of your wealth yourself will take a long time. In the meantime, custodians are going to exist. Giving people a privacy preserving trade off for a custodian seems a good way to move toward a better future, while we educate the masses on self-custody and personal responsibility.
2. Agree with all of this. Trade offs always. There is going to be complexity with any technology until there's not. It used to be super complex and require lots of people to run mainframes, and now we have super computer in our pockets. The more time passed, the more abstracted away from electrons on a motherboard we get. Even 10 years ago, managing a single bitcoin wallet was a super technical task, but today I can download an app to my phone and hold the keys to some coin.
3. I get your point here and don't disagree. This is why I dedicate my free time to working on a solution that I think will help adoption of bitcoin. The "coin" with the best tools will capture more economic share. I hope you're building your ideal future as well. (Personally, I think ETH will be what they build the CBDCs on. All the code and infrastructure is there for the State to scoop up.)
likewise, thanks to you for the reply.

2023-10-04 01:12:32

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I have no writing on drivechains, but I won't be considering them until mining is more decentralized. Hopefully Stratum v2 will help this along, then I can consider putting more economic weight onto mining. The mining ecosystem seems ripe for State capture with the trend toward centralization (look at the three biggest mining pools). Adding drivechains now, (which enable "crypto" tokens, to my understanding) seems like it would draw more attention from the State, given all the recent crack down on crypto more broadly. Landing Sv2 can help disperse the mining risk before we add some other reason for the State to crack down. Maybe in a decade, I would consider drivechains seriously and do more research. For now, I am crunched for time and bandwidth so plan to focus on things I can build now that are helpful.

2023-10-04 01:05:25

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> A fedimint of a group of 5 is also liable to the risks of 5 peoples lives.
There is a threshold quorum to move funds? so the majority of these 5 would have to collude to aid the one child.
> The whole basis for fedimint is based on an anthropological error made by wealthy westerners AND wealthy disconnected Africans about the people they are trying to help.
I don't claim to understand any culture other than my own (western), and even saying that would be a stretch, so your assertions of other cultures outside of western culture may or may not be accurate. However, it does seem that you're only considering one use case of fedimint and not other cases. It's a modular system that can be extended to custody and reach a threshold consensus on arbitrary data. Taking custody of bitcoin is only the default use case. I anticipate many more to be developed.
Multi-national corporations can custody their money and data across jurisdictions in a secure way. Market providers can build an entire ecosystem around their market with modules to customize how the marketplace works. Offline payments with ecash open up a whole heap of other use cases, for example, I only accept communications with valid ecash attached to them.
-----
we already covered the writing critique in another thread. 😅

2023-10-04 00:51:47

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When you say "most people feel this way", what part of the world are you referring to?
What downsides are you referring to? please elaborate. There are plenty of trade offs in all things, but if you're more specific, I can better address the concern.
In your last paragraph, are you referring to another "coin" aside from bitcoin? It reads like you are but you're unspecific. Also, the ad hominem attack doesn't help convince anyone. Give me real arguments. What coin are we waiting for network effect to increase? The market has been pretty clear on what it values the most at the moment.

2023-10-03 20:28:59

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Not my site. 🤷‍♂️ sorry. @npub1p4k…cxf8

2023-10-03 20:05:45

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Don’t have any hard estimates but I would think end of 2024 might be a good timeframe. Just hit 0.1 so very very early.

2023-10-02 20:21:45

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bank run not because there are no funds, explicity to audit the fedimint. Since this can easily be coordinated and executed, there is risk to fractionally reserving. See here for more on the Proof of Liabilities thoughts (not mine)
https://gist.github.com/callebtc/ed5228d1d8cbaade0104db5d1cf63939
I have no idea how XMR works, but it could probably be integrated using the fedimint module system.

2023-10-02 15:56:31

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You chain that bike up?

2023-10-02 15:50:28

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Taxis?

2023-10-02 15:49:54

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Use LN to connect between the families/communities.

2023-10-02 15:48:44

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Do they have AirBnB?

2023-10-02 15:43:27

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Have you ever given your car keys to a valet?

2023-10-02 15:42:53

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Correct. Don't trust complete strangers. Don't use a fedimint run by complete strangers.

2023-10-02 15:35:18

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Not many people have the ability or the knowledge to audit all the code they use. At what point do you stop auditing and start trusting? How do we define that point? Surely it differs for everyone. For instance, I don't know C++. I have not audited bitcoin core in depth. Nor many other apps running on my laptop.

2023-10-02 15:32:38

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I've seen this but don't understand the contextual reference to it?

2023-10-02 15:31:27

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Everything is trade offs and incentives. Don't trust mints run by people you think will inflate the supply. Also, a bank run in ecash is trivial to complete and would audit any malicious printing.
I do agree that ecash is an offchain IOU. Do you mine with a pool? If so, that's an off-chain IOU, most likely.

2023-10-02 15:28:53

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Do you audit the compiler code that runs on your devices? Or any other aspect of your stack? Trust is how we scale technology. The term "standing on the shoulders of giants" comes to mind.
Also, the articles are not long...

2023-10-02 15:27:39

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fedimint is a protocol. I was awarded an Open Sats grant to work on fedimint.
The blog post is from one of the Mutiny wallet devs.
Nice try slinging mud.

2023-09-30 21:40:16

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Decentralization and custody are two separate things.

2023-09-30 21:38:49

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Incentives matter. Drivechains break incentives.
Layers can and will happen. It’s one of the best ways to scale.
https://trustisascalingsolution.com/

2023-09-30 21:30:43

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Correct.

2023-09-30 21:28:23

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ecash will augment this tech and enable even more privacy on bitcoin

2023-09-29 23:02:32

https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/fedimint-overview-and-fedipool-theorizing/110/1

2023-09-29 22:52:27

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heh. I only use the mprocs interface. I am CLI proficient but not a native.
I think the aim of the UI would be to make the barrier to entry lower, but also to be an educational tool. (i.e. a tooltip to show the config that lightningd uses to connect to bitcoind)

2023-09-28 18:30:11

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@nprofile…6yjn blocked me? 🤔

2023-09-28 18:28:35

https://image.nostr.build/c34631944e0cef85dd9ec41777783f246dfe4302e6d8665dabc7875b9e6feac8.png
this can't happen on nostr. thoughts and ideas are free here.

2023-09-27 20:59:32

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https://github.com/gandlafbtc/proxnut

2023-09-27 17:11:08

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Now run and manage the code. Don’t forget liquidity and uptime. And you should get a watchtower too.

2023-09-27 16:06:07

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https://image.nostr.build/ec6d09aa21b7defe7d210aead3637fc1613e7b1a644856e416b6827f18b1772d.jpg

2023-09-27 14:51:48

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Nothing in LN is trivial.

2023-09-27 14:04:09

How do I build an email client that can add ecash to an email header? Is this old thing new again?

2023-09-27 14:03:20

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Ecash > LN for this because of the online requirement. You can just insert ecash into a header or some other metadata location.

2023-09-27 13:59:23

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Ecash fixes this.

2023-09-27 02:22:41

Poolimint
Naive impl.
The block template coinbase is derived as a peg-in deposit address. The pool software acts a Fedimint client to generate this. Then the pool handles the payout of ecash to the miners.

2023-09-27 01:14:12

I would love to take devimint, fully daemonize it, the shove it into the backend of a Tauri app (https://tauri.app/) and then steal Polar's nice UI (cc: @nprofile…xf4z ). Wonder how nix plays into this? (cc: @nprofile…ed2z )

2023-09-25 14:56:23

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Fedi is a company. Fedimint is the open source project/protcol. You should join the Fedimint Discord. chat.fedimint.org
I think a neutral place to discuss ecash UX in general could develop over time, but would be good to has out the technical differences that exists between cashu and fedimint.

2023-09-25 14:47:46

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Can we get an ecash UX working group together? Would love to learn from the @nprofile…2edj to make sure fedimint does similar.

2023-09-25 13:25:20

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no worries. I'll be shitposting about fedimint protocol here.
@nprofile…a5pl how can I get on the inverse blue check train?

2023-09-25 00:57:27

@nprofile…lf37
Get 3 alerts. "no relay responded in 8 seconds" or something similar. Assume note not posted. Go to other client. POSTED NOTE THREE TIMES.

2023-09-25 00:56:20

@nprofile…dpvr
WHO DO I HAVE TO ZAP TO GET THAT NIP:05?
please come to fedimint discord, need moar frenz. chat.fedimint.org

2023-09-24 01:56:49

https://github.com/fedimint/fedimint/pull/3284
Fedimint module flowchart
https://m.primal.net/HLti.png

2023-09-22 18:01:31

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Is this using nut12?

2023-09-17 00:57:37

How do I get a telegram account without a phone number?!?

2023-09-16 20:51:04

https://trustisascalingsolution.com/

2023-09-16 16:38:48

I want to pick three node in a boxes to bundle Fedimint and gatewayd for.
1. Start9
2. Umbrel
3. ????
Thoughts?
Please share for viz