Elias :cl2: on Nostr: > you would have to also believe that gay people that are against gay marriage aren't ...

> you would have to also believe that gay people that are against gay marriage aren't homophobic

Of course they are still homophobic. But one can be homophobic and also be the target of homophobia at the same time. Homophobic gay people don't deserve to be discriminated. The same goes for self-hating or bigoted MAPs (or whatever term you want to use for them).

> if you applied "bigots will keep being bigots so we should just ignore their bigotry" to any other group you would rightly be called out for that, it's unambiguous bigot apologia

I'm not saying to ignore them, I'm saying stop doing things that we know will not work. If you want to call me an apologist for saying that also bigoted people still deserve to be treated as human beings, then be my guest, I guess.

> that relies on the assumption that being hostile to bigots is a bad thing

I don't think being hostile to bigots is inherently good or bad, it all depends on what the consequences of that hostility are. Are you actually changing their minds? Are you protecting other people from their bigotry? Then great, go ahead by all means. But please do also consider the negative effects of this hostility if you do it in public, including the effects on non-bigoted people who are just looking for a space where it is safe to be who they are.

I don't have much energy left for this conversation and I don't have the feeling that either of us is going to convince the other, so I will stop replying to it beyond this post (but feel free to have a final word if you need to).