{"type":"rich","version":"1.0","title":"Cloud Strife [ARCHIVE] wrote","author_name":"Cloud Strife [ARCHIVE] (npub1vn…w7tdn)","author_url":"https://yabu.me/npub1vnx8mse24j0rgxg8wwgtjhwz0x98m5uftee5jv8z7wkeum2zdetsyw7tdn","provider_name":"njump","provider_url":"https://yabu.me","html":"📅 Original date posted:2021-05-09\n📝 Original message:Proof of stake is permissioned by coins, an internal, permissioned, and\nalready owned resource.\n\nYou cannot gain tokens without someone choosing to give up those coins - a\nform of permission. Permission can also be thought of as an infinite\nbarrier to entry.\n\nPoW forces giving up control through both permissionless to enter mining\nvia EXTERNAL permissionless resources and unforgeable costliness for the\nminers.\n\nWithout unforgeable costliness there's no reason to ever give up control in\nPoS.\n\nIn fact, staking quite literally incentivizes keeping control by rewarding\nthose in control with more coins and control in perpetuity at no cost - the\nincentives on PoS are completely backwards from decentralizing control.\n\nSince no mechanism forces control to be permissionlessly distributed to\nothers, parties in control cannot be considered independent parties nor can\ncontrol be considered decentralized.\n\nPoS solves nothing that's relevant to permissionless decentralized networks.\n\n\n\u003e In the following years we'll be seeing proof of stake being implemented\n\n\nIt has been implemented since 2014 but it doesn't meet criteria for a\npermissionless network. There's nothing new about implementing permissioned\nnetworks.\n\nYou could try to replace proof of work with proof of bitcoin burn (not well\nstudied) on blockchains other than Bitcoin, but there's no known\nreplacement for proof of work for Bitcoin right now.\n\nPoS has been considered and studied since then many times since then and\ndismissed repeatedly for irrelevance to decentralized permissionless\ntechnology, examples:\n\n   - https://nakamotoinstitute.org/research/on-stake-and-consensus/\n   -\n   https://medium.com/@factchecker9000/nothing-is-worse-than-proof-of-stake-e70b12b988ca\n   - https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/\n   -\n   https://hugonguyen.medium.com/work-is-timeless-stake-is-not-554c4450ce18\n   - https://arxiv.org/abs/1809.06528\n\n\n\nOn Sat, May 8, 2021 at 10:49 AM Karl via bitcoin-dev \u003c\nbitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\u003e wrote:\n\n\u003e What is more important;\n\u003e\u003e Bitcoin mining introduces the first free-market demand for the cheapest\n\u003e\u003e energy source.\n\u003e\n\u003e\n\u003e This is a really great idea but I think access to technologically advanced\n\u003e hardware is a stronger component than energy here.\n\u003e\n\u003e Making open community chip fabs might change that.  Then anybody could get\n\u003e on the bandwagon.  But right now the hardware barrier keeps the common\n\u003e person out.\n\u003e\n\u003e If you can build a chip fab, you may also be able to build a powerplant.\n\u003e Not many others can do that to compete with you.  The energy economy still\n\u003e has more supply than competition or renewable energy would quickly\n\u003e outcompete nonrenewable as the price dropped.\n\u003e\n\u003e _______________________________________________\n\u003e bitcoin-dev mailing list\n\u003e bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org\n\u003e https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev\n\u003e\n-------------- next part --------------\nAn HTML attachment was scrubbed...\nURL: \u003chttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/attachments/20210509/b188b6b3/attachment-0001.html\u003e"}