Nostr notes by serapath

...i mean, dont get me wrong - i am familiar with elinor ostrom - ...

2026-02-27T11:23:19Z

In reply to nevent1q…xe25
_________________________

...i mean, dont get me wrong -
i am familiar with elinor ostrom - and just a super shallow first impression, but wasnt convincing and havent heard of any of it before.

hmm, soujds like bullshit to me. read througj their FAQ and it ...

2026-02-27T11:21:12Z

In reply to nevent1q…xlcy
_________________________

hmm, soujds like bullshit to me.
read througj their FAQ and it just name drops elinor ostrom and pairs it with techno babble... without any real explanation.

i wouldnt trust it.
its says its not even ready, but it already knows its governance is 6x harder to capture ...lol

2. the project should be governed in an open board room and ...

2026-02-26T21:54:38Z

In reply to nevent1q…5zjr
_________________________

2. the project should be governed in an open board room and implementations should be modular and easy to fork to make it easy for more and more teams to fork and run their implementation, so that funding of developer teams becomes more diverse and less risk for group think than a single undemocratic core team, which even claims their approach of devs on top pulling up others was "democratic".

1. any project succeeds if it solves one thing well and one thing only and allows anyone who wants to build another system to leverage it as a reliable building block - thus bitcoin is store of value and means of payment via lightning, anything else can be solved not by changing bitcoin but by building other systems (e.g. peer to peer) and leveraging bitcoin as a building block that provides the "money feature"

you used time to propose USRF - but have you considered proposing ...

2026-02-22T01:36:31Z

In reply to nevent1q…paj6
_________________________

you used time to propose USRF - but have you considered proposing an upgrade to BIP110 that mitigates the issue?

same here. XFCE, but Linux Mint insteqd of ubuntu... but the ...

2026-01-18T01:42:51Z

In reply to nevent1q…adka
_________________________

same here. XFCE, but Linux Mint insteqd of ubuntu... but the differences are minor.

Just that linux mint works more often out of the box even on exotic laptops ...doesnt matter anymore, because these days its almost alwqys lenovo thinkpads for me and nothing else

Nostr event nevent1qqsxl7p635hx7zhzdw07983ndd64rk7h03azplca25fcn6r22mfaa7szyqus54eck4k6rpyfe3njmf7zv4ysgztt2cx2tmq9s8u8e9mz7asdcxnfqnv

2025-11-21T17:37:57Z

Had a great time at Portland Bitdevs meetup 🙂 #portland ...

2025-10-31T04:02:54Z

Had a great time at Portland Bitdevs meetup 🙂

#portland #bitdevs #meetup

The zines they shared are great and made by satsie (nprofile…rm6f)

Bitcoin Transaction Fees and "block rewards" are ...

2025-10-20T02:37:36Z

Bitcoin Transaction Fees and "block rewards" are incentivizing mining and re-imbursing the computational effort. It is not a fee that pays for storage.

Data gets stored for all of eternity and as the network grows ever more redundantly. Fees cant pay for that. Participants are willing to store blockchain data for free, because they benefit from being able to use bitcoin because of it.

The same benefit does not exist for any non-transactional data.

I think too few people are aware of bitcoin fees not paying for the storage side of things, which is an important fact to consider when weighing arguments in the core30 vs knots debate

You didn't summarize why you perceive this as an "insane ...

2025-10-20T02:07:21Z

In reply to nevent1q…h4gr
_________________________

You didn't summarize why you perceive this as an "insane take".

First:
I had to look up "hell money" and not sure if i found whatever you have in mind, but they have many episodes. There is a "filters dont work" from a month ago and a "bitcoin embraces spam" from 4 days ago. Others seem unrelated. Could you be more specific on what you mean?

Second:
The videos i linked arent the first time i am engaging with this topic. I engage with it on and off since it started, but because in this case it features prominent folks from both sides, i consider it important too.

Adam says many things, but in essence core30 is multiple op returns with up to 100kb by default even though inscriptions are cheaper, so incentive wise nobody would use it apart from it being an officially sanctioned standard to upload data to the chain for it to be stored for free forever by everyone.
Inscriptions and other methods are hacks or creative uses of features that were not meant to be used to store data and the knots fork wants to work towards reducing or eliminating any onchain data that isnt about transactions or rather when in doubt, deny it, while core is about give people options and let them do what they are willing to pay for because its all just data.

Feel free to share your actual reasoning what your take is or what you find so insane with the take i shared :-)...that would be more useful than vaguely pointung towards a podcast without sharing a specific link nor a summary of what it is that would give a gist about why you would claim something as strong as "insane take" followed up by basically an insult... 🙄

Two long interviews about the knots vs core issue. One with Jimmy ...

2025-10-19T21:49:26Z

Two long interviews about the knots vs core issue.

One with Jimmy Song and Adam Back.
The other with Luke Dashjr and Mechanic And Jimmy Song as well.

It goes back and forth a lot and both sides present their side.

It's nuanced and they touch every detail

https://www.youtube.com/live/9p_OBGQityg

https://www.youtube.com/live/UtGC5wRWB3k

My personal take:

After a lot of back and forth, it really boils down to whether you want long term development towards bitcoin as money (store of value, payments, ...) or highly expensive but resilient general data storage.

Knots mission statement is the former.
Cores mission statement is the latter.

yes. i am aware of them since forever... 15+ years for sure... ...

2025-10-03T20:14:20Z

In reply to nevent1q…887z
_________________________

yes. i am aware of them since forever... 15+ years for sure... maybe even 20+ years....

Its a shame hpw long amazing stuff needs to survive frugal to eventually get noticed and maybe have a break through...

...the amazing stuff is around forever, but if people arent ready and support it, then the most amazing project will struggle.

imho there isnt just the left right axis. politics is multi ...

2025-09-30T20:28:57Z

In reply to nevent1q…e48e
_________________________

imho there isnt just the left right axis.
politics is multi dimensional, but you have for sure an important axis between authoritarianism and anarchism.

there are left authoritarians ans left anarchists.
then there are right authoritarians and right anarchists.
and then there are authoritarian centrists and anarchist centrists.

in the end, the money critique comes from the entire left/right spectrum and is voiced by the anarchist leaning folks imho.

li would literally walk away from such people or ...

2025-09-30T16:00:50Z

In reply to nevent1q…fm8a
_________________________

li would literally walk away from such people or ignore/mute/block them online.

I dont think its related to bitcoin though. they exist inside and outside of bitcoin and are most numerous in traditional fiat.

i'd be interesting in a recording of that to listen to ...

2025-09-27T23:51:17Z

In reply to nevent1q…lsmq
_________________________

i'd be interesting in a recording of that to listen to questions and answers from people more familiar with the details 🙂

First of all, I am happy to see Max calls out Bitocoin Core for ...

2025-09-20T18:19:05Z

First of all, I am happy to see Max calls out Bitocoin Core for the ludacris core30 proposal, but ....

I'm quite shocked as well of reading nonsense like relating this to:
1. charly kirk
2. DEI
3. woke
4. US dollar loving
5. incel
6. trans
7. social justice warriors
etc...

One can properly call out nonsense without adding/correlating it to other "battlefields", that make it politically contentious amongst people who might actually support the issue at hand, but are now discriminated against for no reason.

Nobody asked for that. Super unreasonable and unneeded.

We all have to learn how to kill our idols and instead just idolize ideas or ideals.... ...any human - no matter how right they can be in some aspect can be unreasonable in others.

**The gist:**

=> Make up your own minds please 🙂

supertestnetnostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzqkefy4w4a24wk4m422ls6ygrqdm0ga73ngqfch66srwuw02fxk0kqy88wumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmv9uq3xamnwvaz7tmsw4e8qmr9wpskwtn9wvhsz9mhwden5te0wfjkccte9ec8y6tdv9kzumn9wshsqgqc2y7uumvct2wlpkvfm270xkc0hcpf5psp98npljm8m5lfz4pl2vvk4ku0

try https://keet.io instead

2025-09-20T13:15:57Z

In reply to nevent1q…ynw0
_________________________

try https://keet.io instead

of course not everyone will understand bitcoin, but that is true ...

2025-09-16T13:36:59Z

In reply to nevent1q…3w3p
_________________________

of course not everyone will understand bitcoin, but that is true for everything. thats why we have hype cycles.

the point is that the late majority adopts once it is around for long enough and the adopters have shown its usefulness, etc... people go with what their peers go with.

i function in the same way and i claim everyone does. i might have accumulated some expertise when it comes to bitcoin or cryptogrqphy or programming or peer to peer protocols or economics... but life is broad and ...what about nutrition? what about exercise? what about healthy materials for your home? what about relaxing? what about good equipment? what about this? what about that?

ppl work, ppl live, ppl might take care of family and a plethora of other things.

thus, i claim nobody can know it or learn it all and everyone needs to figure out how to trust some other hopefully more knowledgable peers to give good recommendations.

if a topic happens to be far away from your personal domain of expertise and you sadly dont have enough trusted peers that could reliably convey the value, then it is difficult to find a bridge or mean to evaluate "the new thing" ...and especially for older folks who have a lot of responsibilities already its not easy to make the time to dig into stuff the same way youngster have 🤷‍♀️

long story short - in the long run things will get better anyway 😂

1. bitcoin exists for 16 years and is very conservative when it ...

2025-09-16T00:10:06Z

In reply to nevent1q…hxz2
_________________________

1. bitcoin exists for 16 years and is very conservative when it comes to changes so what you have to learn isnt a moving target like it is by design for shitcoins - this means dedicating some time, you CAN actually slowly learn yourself into it.

2. once upon a time, most ppl could not read/write, but bitcoin is for eternity and the new generations grow up with programming as a literacy. It might again take many generatiin to include all of humanity, but it might also happen much faster this time around.

3. yes, there are quite a few thing to learn to understand bitcoin, but the alternative means to continue to deal with capitalism as it ia today.

he cant answer, because he already shared in other notes that he ...

2025-09-08T10:48:35Z

In reply to nevent1q…f6mw
_________________________

he cant answer, because he already shared in other notes that he trusts and beliefs into bitcoin core devs, which is why he defends them without an actual understanding of what core30 does and how it achieves it. 🤷‍♀️

Here is where you say you trust bitcoin core ...

2025-09-07T21:07:41Z

In reply to nevent1q…h0c0
_________________________

Here is where you say you trust bitcoin core

https://primal.net/e/nevent1qqsfkenhrsmvwzrzhak6x5x054l0fqgvxa4n6fzp97zsszzx60g5wvq97hpj7

yeah, you didnt answer anything. if you did, feel free to link to ...

2025-09-07T21:04:33Z

In reply to nevent1q…hrvn
_________________________

yeah, you didnt answer anything.
if you did, feel free to link to the note, but my questions where all left unanswered.

Have fun spending time with your son though... still no need to insult others.

I didnt insupt anyone, i just re-iterated the facts, but that must somehow have upset you 🤷‍♀️

actually i asked him and he already said he trusts in bitcoin ...

2025-09-07T20:59:16Z

In reply to nevent1q…g9qu
_________________________

actually i asked him and he already said he trusts in bitcoin core devs and beliefs in what they do.

when asking him for why he thinks core 30 would e.g. protect against centralization or do something good in other ways, he doesnt answer.

In fact, few probably know that core30 is motivated by citreas smart contract use case.

https://x.com/asanoha_gold/status/1964232598848164240

So in summary - everything can be discussed in terms of pros/cons, but only with people who have opinions based on arguments and not if it is based on beliefs and trust into others that there are good reasons even though those are not known.

the thing is. bitcoin is not about trust. bitcoin is open source ...

2025-09-07T19:50:19Z

In reply to nevent1q…zm5p
_________________________

the thing is. bitcoin is not about trust.

bitcoin is open source and everyone can reason and discuss the rules by themselves.

do you trust satoshi?
...nobody knows who satoshi is or was, so the only way to judge is by looking at what bitcoin is and how it works and one can derive from there.

no need to trust.
bitcoin is exactly about ending the requirement for that kind of trust. its a protocol.

a system that requires trust is fiat or any system with autorities to decide on behalf of you, while you can only suck it up.

bitcoin fixes this.

Of course - nobody has to engage with the community. If you ...

2025-09-07T13:38:07Z

In reply to nevent1q…qff8
_________________________

Of course - nobody has to engage with the community.
If you don't you might find many people might stop running your node implementation if you do things they dont agree with.

So, one easy thing would be to try to explain any planned changes (especially if they are bigger and/or contentious) in a blog post and spread it on social media, so others can comment.

The point is mostly to collect all the various arguments that are being made or the criticism that might be observable and potentially mitigate or adapt the planned updates.

That way it is possible to avoid the issue.

There are many ways.
Open source is all about the freedom to fork and the world to choose what open source programs to run.
That is the democratic voting power of node runners and miners to keep the power of a single developer team in check and instead of discrediting that, it should be embraced.

Of course, core can move forward regardless and look down on any criticism if they think that will help them, but they should bear the consequences as well.

...could you maybe finally answers why or how core30 proposal is meant to achieve more decentralization or link to a resource that explains it? 🤷‍♂️

yes, but THAT IS WHY :-) any group that develops a client (such ...

2025-09-07T13:30:20Z

In reply to nevent1q…73gy
_________________________

yes, but THAT IS WHY :-) any group that develops a client (such as core), should engage with the community to ensure everyone is onboard with specific changes. Obviously not every change will cause a significant amount of the community to start running a fork. Core obviously has more history and more funding and I'm not even a fan of luke, but it is not personal or about who. It is about what and the arguments.
I really dont know or dont care much about who in particular the developers are.

It's not and never was about
- staunch defenders
- or the bad guys

"Filters dont work" has been debunked. They do work. If they didnt, then why remove them? Bitcoin was just fine for the past decade without removing them.

You also havent answers to why you think removing them would help with decentralization - it seems the opposite will happen once BTC will be targeted by CSAM just like BSV was and less noder runners would want to be involved with it and only big players can and will filter those kind of transactions from their mempool, essentially causing centralization.

If you don't agree with that argument, you should be able to argue for why this is not a risk and also why removing filters will presumably help with more decentralization.

That itself is a huge problem and should be self evident. If ...

2025-09-07T13:18:23Z

In reply to nevent1q…h40z
_________________________

That itself is a huge problem and should be self evident.
If there is only one company with one team developing bitcoin, it's clearly not decentralized.
Every implementation is legitimate.
People choosing which implementation to run is people (noder runners/miners) voting what bitcoin should become.

I can't even understand what world view is behind an argument such as "the only legitimate implementation".

Open source means forks are legitimate at any time and even fundamentally important in a network like bitcoin. Without it, we could all just literally continue to use fiat anyway.

Why would you ever even say something like "the only legitimate implementation" ?!?

I read: > "unhinged" or > "social media ...

2025-09-07T12:49:14Z

In reply to nevent1q…qxj0
_________________________

I read:
> "unhinged"
or
> "social media bullying"

Bitcoin is a large network and all users/minders/noderunners are stakeholders. Bitcoin Core is not the only implementation either.

To keep decentralization and not make it a company product, a change to bitcoin is supposed to get scrutinized.

You say there is no "technical merit", but i would love to ask you for links where to read about **why** core 30 is a positive change - thus - how it is supposed to achieve less centralization.

Keeping things without the contentious core30 "upgrade", seems it defends against CSAM and the negative image that can prevent ppl staying away from running nodes to not get prosecuted, thus leaving only big players who are able to run nodes and again filter content that will be e.g. CSAM to not get prosecuted.

But somehow you are saying the opposite is happening. How? Whats the argument?

on the contrary. as with BSV adding 100k op return and being ...

2025-09-07T12:11:59Z

In reply to nevent1q…vxdt
_________________________

on the contrary.
as with BSV adding 100k op return and being filled with CSAM after, means...

...anyone running a node might get prosecuted for it and media will point at bitcoin being csam relay reducing the motivation of ppl to run nodes. The big ones will do it though and have the capacity to filter out unwanted content - causing massive centralization.

why do you think this wouldnt happen?
and how would you think the PR would help with decentralization?

here is the argument in video form ...

2025-09-07T12:06:30Z

In reply to nevent1q…rm34
_________________________

here is the argument in video form

https://youtu.be/eVf0rmnVqPY?si=DXswr6T1AUMnKA6V

there are rwasons for this PR, i am sure - but are they really what you claim or thino they are?

if this is supposed to prevent pool centralization, at the very least - given that this is such a contenious issue, we should be able to read up about the exqct reasoning - so far i havent come across that.

interesting. i thought by now it is clear, that what core is ...

2025-09-07T11:39:49Z

In reply to nevent1q…fyzq
_________________________

interesting.

i thought by now it is clear, that what core is doing was not well reflected.

So given that BSV fork allowed 100kb op return and it was soon after used for relaying CSAM, how is that not gonna affect bitcoin and how is that not an opportunity for governments to go after node runners and generally discredit bitcoin on that basis to prevent more mainstream adoption of node runners?

also, why is it even needed? why wouldnt 80bytes be enough to add some hashes if needed? ...things seemed fine for the last decade or so...

whats the argument core is making for why removing the option for node runners to filter their mempool and blowing up the op return is a good thing?

Here is a very early demo of running a p2p-news-app in a web ...

2025-07-15T12:16:50Z

Here is a very early demo of running a p2p-news-app in a web browser.
It leverages hyperswarm-dht-relay in a similar fashion to nostr relays.
Hopefully this will soon be a lot more mature :-)

https://youtu.be/79pv95Yk8qE?si=SAP9zo-o3bS4xhQX&t=493

Just my knowledge 😁 The reason ist, that in hyperdht a node ...

2025-07-12T22:56:28Z

In reply to nevent1q…qqex
_________________________

Just my knowledge 😁

The reason ist, that in hyperdht a node hashes their IP address to get their address in the DHT and other nodes challenge to see if they own the IP address they claim to own.

That makes it a lot more difficult or rather expensive to do an eclipse attack to control part of the DHT namespace, because you wpuld actually need to really control the real IP addresses responsible for it.

Thats the main difference and bittorrent cant do such an upgrade, because it is widely deployed and all those nodes would need to upgrade and that likely wont happen.

more uncensorable than bittorrent DHT is the HyperDHT that powers ...

2025-07-12T21:39:55Z

In reply to nevent1q…ez46
_________________________

more uncensorable than bittorrent DHT is the HyperDHT that powers keet and more than 20 dat-ecosystem apps.
It improved many aspects of the Bittorrent Mainline DHT and is very battletested since its inception in 2013.

I think p2p apps habe to be structured to be easily crawlable so many indexes can exist and your personal "social p2p network - friends of friends" will determine what you can search or find 🙂

needs no paper. ppl usually click bookmarks or copy/paste urls or ...

2025-04-18T11:16:46Z

In reply to nevent1q…4vmt
_________________________

needs no paper.
ppl usually click bookmarks or copy/paste urls or type and autocomplete from the browser addressbar, so if you had petnames and a contact book where they had public petnames as well, you could show autocomplete from that and have some sort of crypto address for any resource, e.g. a hash or pubkey ...and display your petname or you friend > petname instead.

no global name is really needed

Hello friends 🙂 News from the peer to peer front. A new peer ...

2025-04-02T12:24:25Z

Hello friends 🙂

News from the peer to peer front. A new peer to peer js runtime. 🙂

Want to run Javascript everywhere and have full control?

Try the minimal cross-platform "no bloat" bare runtime. You can even switch out the V8 engine for alternatives like JavascriptCore or QuickJS and other). This is enabled by implementing bindings to C-API via libjs. Works on Desktop, Cloud Servers, Mobile devices, Microcontrollers, etc... write once, run forever 🙂

https://bare.pears.com/

if you need a drive to store files and share with others, you ...

2025-03-25T15:32:52Z

In reply to nevent1q…wcy4
_________________________

if you need a drive to store files and share with others, you might also want to check hyperdrive 🙂

https://docs.pears.com/building-blocks/hyperdrive

no. there are ppl and there are kids. if you are hetero and like ...

2025-03-05T17:24:34Z

In reply to nevent1q…9x3e
_________________________

no.
there are ppl and there are kids.
if you are hetero and like the normal family, go for it. if others like something else, fine too.

isnt it live and let live?
everyone as they please as long as they dont limit the freedom of others?

i dont see why this is an issue.

i love discussing state and taxes and how that is not a consent based concept and violates ppls freedom and if or what can be done to improve it.

...but ppl lifesyle or sexual preferences seem to be in a different category and i cant believe somebody is a libertarian or is against violence and pro consent if they want to lecture others about their lifestyle.

making it part of the discussion might also alienate everyone who might be on your side when it comes to discussing state or government architectures and pros and cons, because you seem to add this relatively random unrelated topic into the mix where ppl might not agree with your lifestyle choices.

that sais, i personally am living in a traditional family, but i am entirely happy with everyone around me doing it the same way or a different way - i dont really care and am happy for them to be happy

Hmm, last time i checked my calendar, it was 2025. I have some ...

2025-03-04T22:07:44Z

In reply to nevent1q…48zl
_________________________

Hmm, last time i checked my calendar, it was 2025.
I have some gay friends who adopted kids an raise them.
I also have hetero friends who decided to not get kids.
Me personally, I went through IVF with my partner to get kids.
Somebody I know paid a surrogate mother to get kids.

Afaik they already grew animals in the lab in artificial wombs and maybe that will be possible in the future as well.

Generally speaking, there are ways to get and raise kids no matter what your sexual orientation is and in the end - those people might work once they are grown up and contribute like everyone else - it's not like humanity is dying out and it seems a bit of a stretch or rather absurd what you say.

In fact i know a lot of hetero couples who do not want kids and quite a lot of gay couples who actually have kids. Also a lesbian couple who got a sperm donor and now they raise kids. ...so yeah, i think your kind of opinion seems more tailord to interfer with other peoples life's that do not affect your own.

I do get the point that taxes are paid by everyone, but the majority decided what to spend it on.

The gay argument you made is the opposite of libertarian or anarchist and it's not even true - so maybe you should reconsider?

if anything correlates, then its ppl having no time for ...

2025-02-22T16:54:24Z

In reply to nevent1q…zcx7
_________________________

if anything correlates, then its ppl having no time for reproduction or caring for offspring, because they are too stressed out working to survive because of monetary debasement... thats as far as i can follow.

but then again, in a modern society many ways are possible and humanity wont die out. let those who want multiply and those who dont ... whatever.

but lets fix the money to give ppl options to choose. give ppl self sovereignity as a prerequisite to build stable societies on top of that... consent and not coercion.

so first doesnt nake much sense. all i can imagine is that due to ...

2025-02-22T16:51:44Z

In reply to nevent1q…j2t9
_________________________

so first doesnt nake much sense.
all i can imagine is that due to incentivized short term thinking, ppl are less receptive to long term more complex memes...

its a stretch though. state vs market is somewhat self evident. that fiat money incentivises short term thinking maybe too, but that this would strongly correlate to anything else you said is a stretch and i think the opposite can be argued as well tbh.

second:
not everyone defaults to collective action. its maybe just a media narrative.
i see merit in your argument in regard to democracy. ... it makes sense and i agree this can be observed.

you could even discuss that this causes nazism or communism in its end game..

...now that this would make memetically transmissible diseases more likely is again not well argued.

pedophilia/homosexuality/veganism/ ..etc. is just ridiculous.

christianity is a memetical transmissible disease as well you can argue and if nothing else, a lot of priests did start abusing kids as well.

agree with no worldwars anymore. ideally no wars.

overall, its too much of a mixed bag what you say and i dont agree and it doesnt make any sense. some topics could be ellaborated further, and maybe discussed, but i have my doubt this discussion can be fruitful. you have your mind made up about most things

why do you think it is connected?

2025-02-22T00:33:45Z

In reply to nevent1q…3y70
_________________________

why do you think it is connected?

what kind of ridiculous conversation did i just read. While I ...

2025-02-21T22:08:48Z

In reply to nevent1q…6cdg
_________________________

what kind of ridiculous conversation did i just read.

While I find the argument state === violence by design and market is voluntary by design ...is legitimate and how markets can or cannot work with or without state - e.g. what is the consensus mechanism to manage e.g. a "land registry" (who owns what land) ... would be interesting, because there is a lot to explore.

But mixing that conversation with personal lifestyle, preferences, or whatever ...such as whether somebody being "gay" is somehow related to that is very weird and imho completely pseudo-scientific and irrelevant.

In a free world, it's everyones choice to live whatever lifestyle they want to live. Everyone in this context is master of their own destiny. Do what you will, so long as it harms none. Live and let live. To each their own.

which decice is it?

2025-02-16T18:39:26Z

In reply to nevent1q…0nk7
_________________________

which decice is it?

I agree with onboarding needs to be simpler, but UX/UI is still ...

2025-01-27T01:52:25Z

In reply to nevent1q…wpek
_________________________

I agree with onboarding needs to be simpler, but UX/UI is still quite bad and there are plenty of ideas how to improve it.

The one thing where i disagree is to skip learning about nostr keypairs and key management. Whether bitcoin or nostr or peer to peer. The future is keypairs and everyone who is not ready for it already has a social network they can use - be it facebook or mastodon.

At some point in evolution, people have to make the switch to keypairs and learn the basics - they also managed to learn domain names and email addresses back in the days.

This is imho absolutely critical to change the way to think about the internet and having users back in control over their digital lifes

Carreers? Contact Us? Waitlist? And a long nerdy description end ...

2024-12-22T19:59:35Z

In reply to nevent1q…jns3
_________________________

Carreers?
Contact Us?
Waitlist?

And a long nerdy description end users wont understand.

Sounds like a recipe for failure.

While the ideas are great, the point is to put something out there that works instead of a waitlist with description.

Also, the second challenge is to use every day language to express the concepts instead of nerdy math and logic, which is easy, but makes it unlikely to succeed outside of a niche.

pzp is conceptually in ma y ways ver similar to the pears ...

2024-12-22T02:25:57Z

In reply to nevent1q…ahen
_________________________

pzp is conceptually in ma y ways ver similar to the pears runtime.

they allow sparse replication. The stack is not as mature and developed, but the concepts are great.

SSB had big issues, because it did not allow sparse replication in its original form and modifications where difficult to introduce later on.

in essence, SSB was linking back to previous entries via hash, while e.g pear runtime uses append only logs with merkle mountain ranger to sync data sparsly.

can that be related to pear runtime hypercores?

2024-12-17T13:16:57Z

In reply to nevent1q…fhdw
_________________________

can that be related to pear runtime hypercores?

of course. because microsoft basically backed and started web3 ...

2024-12-10T17:39:25Z

In reply to nevent1q…mjye
_________________________

of course.
because microsoft basically backed and started web3 and thenentire ahR of web3 is run through microsoft, which is also why most web3 folks are formerly microsoft employees and microsoft backs web3 events since the early days and embraces smart contracts.

microsoft is really the number one competitor to bitcoin - hidden behind an ecosystem of web3 blockchains it grows....

Voices from 1888 https://youtu.be/BrXUcEh0ncE?si=7ChuE1BKh1J3hZYO

2024-12-10T13:44:20Z

Voices from 1888
https://youtu.be/BrXUcEh0ncE?si=7ChuE1BKh1J3hZYO

Mozilla is not anymore what it once was. Its a bit pointless to ...

2024-12-09T17:04:05Z

In reply to nevent1q…crwv
_________________________

Mozilla is not anymore what it once was.
Its a bit pointless to continue expecting it 🤷‍♀️

...and that would be a much more important point to communicate imho.

delta chat is built on top of email, which means it doesnt scale, ...

2024-12-05T08:28:52Z

In reply to nevent1q…dylh
_________________________

delta chat is built on top of email, which means it doesnt scale, does not support video or audio chat and is in general very feature limited.

your identity is an email, which means federation and not peer to peer.

delta chat thinks about adding p2p capabilities using "iroh", but iroh is way behind the dat/hyper stwck used by the pare/bare runtime which keet uses and its DHT is just bitcoin mainline from which keets underlying p2p stack upgraded years ago after using it to add holepunching capabilities and better sybil protection...

...so eh, keet is already more secure and more capable than delta chat now and that will only improve in the future.

hyperdrive is used to store all files in keet, which means the stack and the runtime, which is THE REAL innovation here, can be used to build other compatible apps.

peerviewer and https://holesail.io and more than 20 other apps in https://dat-ecosystem.org already make use of that and so shoyld delta chat if they werent misguided imho 🤷‍♀️

after all, iroh is cofounded by former ipfs developers which means filecoin/ethereum shitcoin ecosystem and is funded by a for profit new york based company so it could enshittify fast. its also not the developers who own that company? they are merly employed.

holepunch wqs created and is run by the main developer and the dat ecosystem is a 501c3 public good company with the mandate to keep it open source.

main implementation of the stack is C + jS but alternative implementation in rust exists as well

keet encryption is bullet proof as well 😅 all communication is ...

2024-12-05T08:21:44Z

In reply to nevent1q…jd4s
_________________________

keet encryption is bullet proof as well 😅
all communication is end to end encrypted using noise http://www.noiseprotocol.org/ and otherwise uses libsodium for cryptography, which is well audited.

How about switching to https://keet.io ?

2024-12-04T21:18:36Z

In reply to nevent1q…4xq9
_________________________

How about switching to https://keet.io ?

hmm... i assumed an ipv6 address is not long enough to hold a ...

2024-12-04T18:30:46Z

In reply to nevent1q…kccw
_________________________

hmm...
i assumed an ipv6 address is not long enough to hold a pubkey and because they derive it from a pubkey? i assume they just represent the pubkey in hex and take the first X chars... or maybe the first X xhars of the hash of the pubkey and literally use it as their ipv6 address?

so i imagine the address does not really encode the pubkey but is derived from it.

anyway? i am kinda guessing based on what i know and filling the missing pieces with best guesses based on what i imagine would make sense

cjdns uses ipv6, doesnt it?

2024-12-04T13:27:21Z

In reply to nevent1q…2k9e
_________________________

cjdns uses ipv6, doesnt it?

why not? whatever is the underlying address... if i use my pubkey ...

2024-12-04T13:26:41Z

In reply to nevent1q…p9k8
_________________________

why not?
whatever is the underlying address...

if i use my pubkey or hash of my pubkey as 'key' and the 'value' i publish to the DHT is my address and the pubkeys of ppl i am connected to, then anyone could query the dht to lookup that information and then repeat the process with the pubkeys i am connected to to see who they are connected to and so on ...until i find a path from me to my target and then i can route my packet.

this is my understanding. i might be wrong - as i am not a cjdns expert, but the mechanism as such makes sense. in principle it would work.

migjt wanna try keet.io instead

2024-12-04T13:21:14Z

In reply to nevent1q…jeg6
_________________________

migjt wanna try keet.io instead

whhat about keet?

2024-12-04T11:23:56Z

In reply to nevent1q…ek5n
_________________________

whhat about keet?

I am not intimately familiar with cjdns and what gets stored in ...

2024-12-04T02:30:43Z

In reply to nevent1q…dhp6
_________________________

I am not intimately familiar with cjdns and what gets stored in the DHT.

Afaik its not about anonymity but about performance.
Data is sent end to end encrypted.
Packets are routed based on their source to experiment with routing algos. Routing data comes from distributed hash table.

At the core it's:
1. Switch
2. Router
3. CryptoAuth

I assume some more relevant details can be found here:

https://github.com/cjdelisle/cjdns/blob/master/doc/Whitepaper.md#how

I assume it stored the pubkeys needed to communicate securly with a specific node and the IP address of that node derived from pubkey.

I assume, every node would publish their pubkey, IP address and pubkeys of nodes they are directly connected to.

This way, i could query the destination and slowly look up a neighbors pubkey they are connected to that is closest to my address and then lookup that and recurse until i actually find a connection to me and then send packets through that route.

This is something that could be relatively easily replicated on the hyperdht/hyperswarm dht as well :-)

if you are looking for a really advanced flexible kademlia based ...

2024-12-02T17:23:38Z

In reply to nevent1q…dput
_________________________

if you are looking for a really advanced flexible kademlia based DHT, that enables peer discovery and assists with holepunching for direct noise encrypted connections, you could also consider taking a look at hyperdht/hyperswarm

i dont know all details, but imho reticulum is designed for rural ...

2024-12-02T17:21:16Z

In reply to nevent1q…yfs2
_________________________

i dont know all details, but imho reticulum is designed for rural and offgrid low bandwith environments and afaik isnt very efficient fornhigh speed real time communication.

CJDNS uses a kademlia based DHT for routing.

Yggdrasil uses a spanning tree based approach.
The founder of SSB (if you've heard of it), implemented "epidemic broadcast tree" (plum tree?) ...so its a self healing spanning tree with some redundancy afaik.

i guess cjdns approach is a bit more robust/resilient than yggdrasil, but yggdrasil might be a bit more efficient if the network is really stable.

a large DHT without eclipse attack protection can be worse than a ...

2024-11-22T03:01:58Z

In reply to nevent1q…fm3j
_________________________

a large DHT without eclipse attack protection can be worse than a smaller DHT with eclipse atrqck protection.
Wthout an attacker can occupy a specific area of the DHT with relatively few sock puppet nodes. With the protection the cant attack specific areas and need to just spam the entire DHT nodes to eventually attack the DHT keys they are interested in.

Also, if every DHT node supported holepunching and assisted new nodes with holepunching as well, things become a lot more useful.

The sybill attack mitigation and the assisted distributed holepunching is both supported by hyperdht which the pear and bare runtime use.

Would be cool to bundle it with a nostr node.

If all nostr nodes supported it, it would improve the resistance against the sybil attacks by an order of magnitude more than with other DHTs like bittorrent mainline

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tazy2O0oM_E

2024-11-22T02:53:00Z

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tazy2O0oM_E

hyperdht is smaller and additional benefits 1. used by keet and ...

2024-11-21T20:45:18Z

In reply to nevent1q…ruuc
_________________________

hyperdht is smaller and additional benefits
1. used by keet and pear runtime
2. protects against eclipse attack
3. has best in industry holepunching built in

pear runtime as dat started out with bittorrent mainline dht too, but moved on because of issues related to holepunching and eclipse attacks that cant be fixed in bittorrent mainline, because it wpuld be a breaking change and bittorrent mainline is too widely distributed.

the scale of mainline is much less helpful when it cokes to eclipse attacks and smaller size is sometimes as secure because of the additional sybil eclipse attack protection.

anyway - would recommend to talk to the pear runtime team at holepunch.

hyperdht is the most advanced and modern dht i am aware of and would definitely recommend 🙂

argue it however you want. the more ppl adopt btc, the better. ...

2024-11-19T22:00:02Z

In reply to nevent1q…mukq
_________________________

argue it however you want.
the more ppl adopt btc, the better.
left leaning folks have a different understanding.

its not about free market money.
capitalism is that with the privileged money printer class and always has been throughout history. we never had independent money for real. ending all money printers means everyone is in the same class. sure. some richer than others, but same rules apply l. class war ends.

capitalism is mostly the rich getting rich by the printer access.
VCs... banks... also govrrnemnts.

did elon earn his billions? nope.
openAI?
nope. none of them is break evenhow did they get money access. by convincing capitalists to print money for them.

leftists should join bitcoin. 🙂

division between "left" and "right" is just divide and conquer by the fiat money rulers. the actual capitalists since the dawn of capitalism 🙂

most leftists are poor. the rich are not leftists. they are fakers, corrupt, just like on all sides. rich money printer folks - a.k.a the trur capitalists in any real world derived definition instead of some textbook never happened in reality yet definition

bitcoin is class war. bitcoin ends the money printer class eho ...

2024-11-19T04:51:59Z

In reply to nevent1q…7rwc
_________________________

bitcoin is class war.

bitcoin ends the money printer class eho prints themselves into cantillionaires.

there needs to be a campaign to hammer this point across.

the capitalists brand bitcoin as capitalist stuff so leftists wont touch it.

this needs to end

Why Bluesky is not the answer to any of our problems but rather a ...

2024-11-19T04:49:15Z

In reply to nevent1q…2xzj
_________________________

Why Bluesky is not the answer to any of our problems but rather a step back from what we achieved so far:

https://destructured.net/bluesky-enshittification

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/joecardillo_bluesky-bigtech-socialmedia-activity-7263206291139932161-BTim/

https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/202x/2024/11/15/Not-Bluesky

https://doctorow.medium.com/https-pluralistic-net-2024-11-02-ulysses-pact-tie-yourself-to-a-federated-mast-b2f89bb5b4d8

it's worth working towards a future where one day it might be ...

2024-11-19T00:57:55Z

In reply to nevent1q…ky49
_________________________

it's worth working towards a future where one day it might be all ponies and rainbows though :-)

wow, hyper support as in pear runtime would be phenomenal 🤩

2024-11-18T15:15:15Z

In reply to nevent1q…8y7m
_________________________

wow, hyper support as in pear runtime would be phenomenal 🤩

honestly. yes. money fixes the incentives a d that fixes the ...

2024-11-17T15:53:42Z

In reply to nevent1q…j64n
_________________________

honestly. yes. money fixes the incentives a d that fixes the degenerate behavior... which is corruption, because you can get ahead by capturing the money printer and defending it rather than serving the people.

...but imho, why, how or what that has to do with "pervertedness" in general or "pedophilia" pretty much is beyond me.

the money we have mainly incentivizes fake news and corruption and all kinds of shitty behavior to get ahead for the competition of controlling the printer at the cost of everyone else.

AGPL sounds good to me. I personally have published all my code ...

2024-11-16T03:43:26Z

In reply to nevent1q…5edz
_________________________

AGPL sounds good to me.
I personally have published all my code under MIT, but i am considering a switch to AGPL.

I guess the argument against AGPL is and always was, that if you need law enforcement for your code, something is broken.

MIT and nobody using it and turning it closed sourxe, because it would not make sense would be the biggest win. I wish all code i write code proprietary closed sourxe businesses are not interested in.

If I did AGPL - would i have the resources to use law enforcement to enforce things? ...very likely not, so fuck it - i need something better than licenses

where or how do you join?

2024-11-13T22:25:40Z

In reply to nevent1q…9rzz
_________________________

where or how do you join?

internet archive is down for me. bluesky seems rubish

2024-11-05T22:01:10Z

In reply to nevent1q…3033
_________________________

internet archive is down for me.

bluesky seems rubish

DNS or domains are a hierarchical system and there are multiple ...

2024-11-03T19:18:45Z

In reply to nevent1q…apj6
_________________________

DNS or domains are a hierarchical system and there are multiple levels on which censorship can occur. it can always escalate to the next level. it is routinely used and enabled by the way DNS works.

it doesnt even need icann itself. try to reach certain domains in ...

2024-11-03T19:09:18Z

In reply to nevent1q…c4k4
_________________________

it doesnt even need icann itself.
try to reach certain domains in certain countries.
try to reach the pirate bay.
try to reach the internet archive in the UK
try to reach sci hub
a lot of open source security related tooling is also censored
and then of course people get deplatformed in some countries ... thats a very common practice.

oh and torrent trackers where victim too.

...theblist goes on. I am actually surprised by your question

I think betting on dat or hyper-stack and the pear runtime is a ...

2024-11-03T18:42:25Z

In reply to nevent1q…ctx7
_________________________

I think betting on dat or hyper-stack and the pear runtime is a save bet.
keet is state of the art and proves what is possible, which other stacks lack.
The stack behind the pear runtime has also been worked towards since 2013 and survived a lot of tough times.

Other projects are at the mercy of funders and if those leave ornchange their minds, people move on and things die quickly.

That is different from the pear runtime which despite lack of funding for long periods of time, survived and is striving, because people give it a lot of love and effort and this is rare to find imho.

It outlived many projects over the past 10+ years, projects with more hype and more funding. ...it might outlive nostr as well 🙂

And also because Keet can do a lot of things nostr cand and was never designed to do.

ICANN is worse. it is not decentralized. Domains regularly get ...

2024-11-03T18:03:07Z

In reply to nevent1q…yate
_________________________

ICANN is worse.
it is not decentralized.
Domains regularly get taken down or censored.

Also the certificates browsers and tools ship with that are needed to make it all work are ridiculous given that it could work wothput any of that.

Of course, shitco8ners want to scam and control, so they always argue in favor and then squeeze themselves in as intermediaries.

There is really no need to use domains or global names at all.
This is just not what people rely on in practice and normal people nyway dont understand what they are trusting in.

is that what you do when you have no argument anymore? start ...

2024-11-03T17:38:55Z

In reply to nevent1q…rs80
_________________________

is that what you do when you have no argument anymore? start getting rude? 🤷‍♀️

maybe you are the one who is wrong? 🤷‍♀️

2024-11-03T17:36:24Z

In reply to nevent1q…46jc
_________________________

maybe you are the one who is wrong? 🤷‍♀️

i am not sure what is being measured here or what "340" ...

2024-11-03T17:02:34Z

In reply to nevent1q…gl6w
_________________________

i am not sure what is being measured here or what "340" nodes means.

Keet alone has plenty of more users and each of them is automatically participating in the DHT.

And thats only keet.

Dat ecosystem counds at least 25 more listed projects, all with their own user base, so that alone makes it way kore than 340.

So hard to say how or what you measured 🙂

if i knew 😅 i guess the AI game

2024-11-03T17:00:14Z

In reply to nevent1q…4xrl
_________________________

if i knew 😅
i guess the AI game

i know little about synonym. nothing i said was meant to say ...

2024-11-03T16:40:15Z

In reply to nevent1q…wu0g
_________________________

i know little about synonym. nothing i said was meant to say anything about synonym.

i am talking more about ethereum/ipfs/iroh/web3 and pkarr as one tech building block of iroh....

Sorry if that was misunderstood.

iroh is a new york based for profit with a convertible note from ...

2024-11-03T16:38:55Z

In reply to nevent1q…03m9
_________________________

iroh is a new york based for profit with a convertible note from IPFS or rather protocol labs and open to more funding in the future.

it started as a fork of ipfs to implement another client and then adated to make more changes to it. the founders worked for a long time on the core of IPFS and now have their own take on it.

There is more nuance to it and where ppl come from and how they relate to web3, but thats the gist

it woupdnt make much sense though, because it is mostly a feature ...

2024-11-03T16:32:49Z

In reply to nevent1q…gl6w
_________________________

it woupdnt make much sense though, because it is mostly a feature native to hyperdht anyway.

https://docs.pears.com/building-blocks/hyperdht#mutable-immutable-records

To be honest. The question is if we need global names at all. Why ...

2024-11-03T16:30:35Z

In reply to nevent1q…5466
_________________________

To be honest.
The question is if we need global names at all.

Why bother if you can go with bookmarked alias/pet names for hash/pubkey based addresses and when you encounter a new key, you query your social network to get the pet/aliases of trusted peers.

thats what ppl do already.
they trust bookmarks and links they find on websites and trust into browser autocompletion in url bars... nobody types addresses manually.

you literally in practice dont need global names. this is not how anyone uses stuff.

otherwise ppl consume digitally and for offline you have QR codes... so essentially backwards to introduce a can of worms we can go without.

its a shitcoin features, e.g. ENS or whatever ... they solve a problem we dont really have in practice

it makes a lot more sense to integrate pears. Pkarr is just piggy ...

2024-11-03T16:09:28Z

In reply to nevent1q…hfw9
_________________________

it makes a lot more sense to integrate pears.

Pkarr is just piggy backing on bittorrent dht mainline which is what dat did years ago and moved on to implement what keet uses today, because of many significant updates that can never be deployed on top of the bittorrent dht.

hyperdht/hyperswarm is just the more modern capable version and what punky sells as brand new is pe3fectly possible on top of battlw tested hyperdht since forever already.

also, pears isnt backed by by shitcoiners who grew out of ethereum/ipfs/iroh environment, which might not matter, but maybe it does?

what kind of question or take is that? bitcoin vs icann? 😄 ...

2024-11-03T16:05:25Z

In reply to nevent1q…7vx3
_________________________

what kind of question or take is that? bitcoin vs icann? 😄 c'mon

Also pkarr is conected to wthereum/ipfs shitcoiners as well, so ...

2024-11-03T13:48:00Z

In reply to nevent1q…aq7s
_________________________

Also pkarr is conected to wthereum/ipfs shitcoiners as well, so maybe you'd prefer a tether funded bitcoin related project that is technically more sophisticated as well?

pkarr uses the bittorrent mainline dht. A bit outdated. Keet ...

2024-11-03T13:46:45Z

In reply to nevent1q…4393
_________________________

pkarr uses the bittorrent mainline dht. A bit outdated. Keet Messenger uses Hyperswarm/Hyperdht, which allows the same feature set for much longer and more battle tested as well.

Nostr event nevent1qqst7rhhgfmjxe5pg8hamu6uhran88rr5v3gwh2sfeyw4nmvzaa0gkqzyqus54eck4k6rpyfe3njmf7zv4ysgztt2cx2tmq9s8u8e9mz7asdchh8e84

2024-11-03T07:10:18Z

are you working for that project?

😅runtime

2024-10-29T22:38:38Z

In reply to nevent1q…wec2
_________________________

😅runtime

i do think everyone wants institutions. the question is more ...

2024-10-29T22:38:04Z

In reply to nevent1q…t4vk
_________________________

i do think everyone wants institutions.
the question is more about the money printers.

universal access to education?
youtube and the internet has done more for that than any education system recently. ..i dont see this trend reversing.

healthcare is still a big question and it is quite ridiculous that natiinal health care services end on nation borders.it is very discriminatory.

i also dont like rudeness and prefer to avoid it, but i prefer some tension but open discussion over nice phrases without real consideration.

will this use hyperswarm using pear rubtime? 🙂

2024-10-29T22:26:34Z

In reply to nevent1q…y5xx
_________________________

will this use hyperswarm using pear rubtime? 🙂

what did we expect from blsky? it is decentralization theater - ...

2024-10-27T00:09:04Z

In reply to nevent1q…lvpm
_________________________

what did we expect from blsky? it is decentralization theater - always has been.

Hm, i dont see @npub18na…5evl saying anything about what you ...

2024-10-26T22:59:32Z

In reply to nevent1q…wc58
_________________________

Hm, i dont see mbarulli (npub18na…5evl) saying anything about what you people write.

> progressive, left leaning, and reformist political views

What does that even mean?

I just for fun checked wikipedia.
It's some stuff made up during the french revolution - thats a long time ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics

Or from the age of enlightenment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

Pretty old school.
Hard to imagine what exactly that is supposed to mean in 2024.

There are political parties using such labels, but they are all the same crooked and corrupt and dont really give a fuck, so again - lip service - hard to say what anything really means.

How about just treating the whole thing as "vibing"? :-)
We know what's real is nostr.
Also bitcoin is real. Keypairs are real. Lightning is real.
A platform that promotes zapping is real.

There are many things that can be tangible and it is possible to figure out whether we do agree in a pragmatic way or not - and maybe we are coming from different backgrounds used to talk differently, use different words and language, but ...do we really mean different things?

Just a suggestion.

I'm personally "dividing" people into people who are interested in discussing topics to figure out where and why we have different views and those that are not interested and only care about building their own "team" based on color or words or whatever.

The latter ones are not really interested in left vs right or any actual debate, they are just interested in building their followers and status for the sake of it and that's quite a bit different from the actual meaning of any words used.

How about we discuss things instead to find out? 😉 If you ...

2024-10-26T22:47:26Z

In reply to nevent1q…vcaw
_________________________

How about we discuss things instead to find out? 😉

If you check wikipedia or what have you, you might find an exact scientific definition of terms - but more often than that, you might find that the definition is broad enough and there are different groups defining terms slightly differently with some room for interpretation. That is almost always true for general terms such as "libertarian", "capitalist", "anarchist", "communist" ...any such terms mostly makes it impossible to make any progress ...same with relgious concepts like "god" :-) ... instead of discussing a specific issue, things get generalized and no progress cant be made, because using the general terms, we always know exactly that a specific set of terms does not vibe with another specific set of terms and whatever set you affiliate with ...makes you pick a camp to fight the other ... wasting time, making no progress either.

...
That said though:

Instead of assuming A, B or C, why not ask and find out? :-)

Why should we keep it at ...libertarians are not progressive, what are they? backwards? 🥳 ...and what does progressive even mean?

Let's be honest - these kind of discussion just associates oneself with specific labels - it's a way of joining team foo or team bar.

It's pointless.

I can see value in bringing more people to bitcoin and nostr.
The protocols work in a specific way and thats already valuable.
What people like to wear or what type of music they like to listen to - it's just personal vibes, who cares?

any repository link

2024-10-24T14:20:16Z

In reply to nevent1q…qey6
_________________________

any repository link

is that true though? people are decent and it is perfectly ...

2024-10-23T11:59:33Z

In reply to nevent1q…ygvh
_________________________

is that true though?

people are decent and it is perfectly reasonable to pay for welfare voluntarily.
People obviously already donate a lot for causes and philantrophy is a thing as well.

Now in a bitcoin world a lot will be so different that it is unclear what will be needed in the end, but onpy because you are pro bitcoin doesnt mean you have to be a selfish asshole who doesnt give a damn about others.

You can see this when people voluntarily organise to help after Hurrican Milton and many other examples are to be found everywhere 🙂

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYXDLv4BZmQ

2024-10-22T19:40:01Z

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYXDLv4BZmQ

can you provide a good list of them or how to find the good ones?

2024-09-22T17:41:29Z

In reply to nevent1q…gy23
_________________________

can you provide a good list of them or how to find the good ones?